The Crumbling

[00:00:00:00 - 00:02:08:12]
Hey everybody, this is Sophia Florence, one of the hosts of the Crumbling Podcast, and I'm here to tell you that we have new tiers on Patreon. And I know what you're thinking, do I wanna pay more for this podcast? Hell yeah, because you're gonna get some cool shit with it. Our early supporter tier is now one of the new ones. Obviously we have the old Help Us Grow one, which is just $3 a month. That gives you access to our episodes early and gives you access to our special episodes called Crumbs. The early supporter tier, which is $6 a month, gives you early access to the episodes like the other one. Gives you some exclusive behind the scenes content, so there'll be clips, bloopers, more, other things that we'll be adding to Patreon. A physical sticker pack, which is fun and theme designs produced by our illustrator, Chris Durrendy. Patreon only updates and polls that'll help shape our future content. So that'll be really exciting if you want to kind of be more of an active participant in what we're doing here. And it's, you know, just kind of a perfect thing for fans who wanna sneak peek and exclusive goodies. There's some really fucking cool designs. I can't wait to y'all see them. If you want to go a little bit more than that, we have the super fan tier that is $20 a month that gives you early access to all the episodes. It gives you those behind the scenes episodes and extras. It'll give you access to something that the other ones don't have, which is a limited edition t-shirt. If you've got one right now, it's super cool. I am not even gonna show it to you guys. Probably have more designs over the years. If you want the shirt, come get it. It's $20 a month for that, ideal for anyone who loves merch. They wanna, you know, tell people about our podcast and they don't wanna actually talk about it. You know, some of us are introverts. You don't wanna talk about shit. You just wanna be a billboard and I'm cool with that. And also it's the same art that's on the stickers. It is super rad. And 40% of the tiers proceeds go directly to supporting our illustrators work. That is Chris Tirendi. He's at chrisstirendi, T-I-R-E-N-D-I, art.com. chrisstirendiart.com. Give it a look. I hope that some of you will join and I hope that you will, you know, take part in some polls and tell us what you want. We want to make the content that you want within the confines of the stuff that we like to do. Please go to our Patreon, patreon.com, slash the crumbling podcast and join today. (Upbeat Music)

[00:02:11:17 - 00:04:05:09]
Hey everybody, welcome to the Crumbling Podcast, a podcast about ghouls and ghosts. And so far as we've mentioned, Stephen Miller and talked about the specter of coming is a lurking over Yorkshire, but this is a podcast about our sense of reality is crumbling and maybe what we can do about it. If we save the cheerleader, we can save the world. Today, we're going to be talking about something scary and we're going to be doing it with someone who knows a thing or two about some scary shit. She's a co-host of a podcast called "Jack of All Graves," a former writer for "Wisecrack." Rest in peace, Wisecrack. Ah, oh man, my heart. Shout to Robert Evans, shout to Jane. (Speaking In Foreign Language) She's also a learned scholar of film and such and just one of the coolest people on the internet, Corrigan Vaughan, how you doing? I'm doing wonderful, I'm so excited to be here. I've listened to some of your stuff and you all sound so much more professional than me and my co-host who say fuck a lot and talk about horror movies and whatnot. So I feel like I'm in very esteemed company right now. That's so funny, because I feel like I also say fuck a lot. You know, at least in the ones that I've listened to, it feels like you at least try to sound like you know what you're talking about and less profane than we do. But you know, we have a good time and I'm really excited about this episode here because this is one that gets me going when I've talked about it on my podcast and anytime someone brings it up in regular life it gets me going. So I'm stoked to be here and discuss with you. Yeah, this is one of the episodes that like when we started the podcast, this was always on my list of stuff to do. We started the podcast last October and I wanted to tell the story of "Gamergate" first and I just wanted this to be a Halloween special. Wait, so how we been doing this for a year? We've been doing this for a year, yeah. Happy anniversary. Yeah, happy anniversary. We started recording before my birthday last year and it is now after my birthday this year. We've been doing this for a year?

[00:04:06:20 - 00:04:54:11]
This is what happens when you get old. Every year just passes so quickly. Oh my God. Blink of an eye, you know? Oh my God, that's enough. I'm about to come home with my therapy. Devin is our youngest member. Yeah, I'm really happy to be here. I'm surprised by it, yeah. I'm the baby. You're starting to feel the wheels of time turn and it's crushing. It'll keep happening. So have you guys ever watched any Christian movies? Yes I have, I've watched "God's Not Dead." I've watched multiple of the "God's Not Dead" series, like one through like four I think. Oh, because I was gonna ask if you watched any of the really silly ones and talk about how God is real and people being silly for not acknowledging God. Now everyone repents at the end and they learn their lessons, except for the bad atheist who something bad happens to, because something bad has to happen and they gotta get cancer.

[00:04:55:14 - 00:05:39:05]
So have you guys watched any movies about exorcisms? I think I've watched the, what's the one with the doll in the case? Someone in college because everybody knows I hate scary movies. Oh, that's true. But I'm not a scary movie fan. Sofia has like slowly will give me stuff. I'm very ironic because I like the screen franchise. The screen franchise actually won my very movie franchises. Because that's a meta analysis that's different. Traditionally don't like scary, like jump scares. Someone goes like, "Oh, we should watch like whatever the doll one was." Not Chucky, I've seen Chucky. The Conjuring. There we go, The Conjuring. And we watch, you know. Oh no, it's whoever won is like that shitbag couple. Oh, that's Annabelle. They all know now. That's Annabelle, yeah.

[00:05:40:06 - 00:08:44:23]
I don't even remember there, but I remember that's like how I learned you loved our movie, Sofia, because I was saying how I was watching this movie. Because I usually, I really don't like horror movies because I hate jump scares. But then I was so enraged by how dumb the movie was and how dumb everybody in the movie was, that immediately my brain goes, "Okay, maybe I should try more horror." And so I was like, I want you to, and we were like, "Oh, talk to Sofia." She, like, she loves horror. We just started talking about it. And then we got into the history of black people in horror and then from there our friendship was born. Aww, that's a beautiful thing. That's what I like to hear. That's a horror obsessive. My unedited thoughts, and I feel like it terrifies her most of the time. (All Laughing) Daven hit the nail on the head. We're gonna be talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren, that shitbag couple, the real life inspirations behind the absolutely not real life, the Conjuring film series, including Annabelle and the Nun, which was the only cool movie in that series. I don't know why. I actually, I'm the only person in the world, but I actually really like Annabelle. I liked the prequel. Yeah, the original or something. Yeah, well the one with like the couple, they're having a baby and Annabelle is like in a cult. She's like in a Charlie Manson type thing. I like that one and that's like, everyone hates that. I just watched the other day. No, that one was good. It was the only movie in the series where people died. True. And it's scary too. The entire time watching that, I always think like if that were me and this were happening to me, I would be terrified, which is all I really want out of a horror movie. I mean, no, there's a lot more I want out of a horror movie, out of a scary horror movie. Yeah. So I like Annabelle and it doesn't have the Warrens in it. Yeah, it's a much better movie. Yes. One, I fucking hate the Warrens. And two, I feel like if you have a movie where you know no one's gonna die, the stakes are pretty low. It's like, oh, there's a ghost. It might cause some mischief. Right. Like we're just watching Beetlejuice. Like I don't know. Yeah. No, I don't like it. But it's not even funny. I'm a hardcore. Sure, yeah. So I knew one of the Conjuring movies came out and we were planning to put this episode out for Halloween. So it felt like a good time to talk about this kind of disinformation, because that's what we do talk about. And I know that a lot of people in my lovely home state of Connecticut take a lot of pride in the Warrens being from here, but it's one of the things that pisses me off the most. Like there are a lot of unsavory things you can be. And I think the Warrens would tick a lot of those check boxes. So I know Corrigan, you're very well aware. For V and David, what do you know about the Warrens? I don't think they have like the supernatural museum. Okay, so I'm trying to say this politely cause I don't ever like come across like a son of someone's like religious beliefs, but it really feels like this special type of grifter who takes advantage of maybe paranoia or like the sense where you believe in something so strongly, you start to manifest it. And they feel like they inflame that and then just say, well, it's $10,000 per day for us to come out. They're like bad divorce lawyers. We're just gonna drag the case out and charge you inflated prices just to leave you kind of half fucked in me. I love knowing that you haven't read the script.

[00:08:46:05 - 00:08:46:17]
(Laughing)

[00:08:49:01 - 00:09:46:12]
Exactly what we're gonna dive into. I feel like in our long friendship, I feel like this is the happiest I'm making you. Cause you know, Corrigan, I don't ever read a script until like two minutes before we record because I say my natural instincts are better. Also because sometimes I forget the table, send me the strips. Yeah, like honestly, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. There's more to it than that, but like that was an impressive summary of at least one aspect of Warren suck. Oh, thank you so much. They give me like the long Island medium vibes of like, you're really taking advantage of this family who believes in this thing or who was desperate when it could have been anything. Maybe there are spirits. I'm black, I don't fuck with like, statistically most spirits are racist. Like statistically and two in a horror movie, I'm the first one to die. Unless there's another black person there. Not anymore, not anymore, but yes, historically.

[00:09:47:14 - 00:09:49:01]
Yeah, we tipped on the blackening.

[00:09:50:02 - 00:11:55:18]
That's why, but it's very much, you guys are the definition of what grifters look like from like the limited things I've seen. That's probably why I don't pay attention. Yeah, you know that they do in fact have a quote unquote supernatural museum. It is not open anymore because it's in a resident from neighborhood in Monroe, Connecticut. It's really weird. Connecticut is one of those places where you go from a city to what feels like the middle of nowhere very quickly or over and over again. And it's in one of those places that feels like the middle of nowhere, but you're really 10 minutes from. Civilization. Literally you could just, yeah. And it'll still take you a while to walk at least. Yeah, but yeah, it's in the woods out there. Monroe is a woodsy little conservative town. It's God forsaken land. And their little museum was recently bought by Matt Rife comedian. Did you see he looks like handsome Squidward? Yes. Matt Rife is like before all the Botox like inflated his face, like beast stung him. He's like the textbook definition of like attractive guide. Like not attractive for everybody, but if you think of like, what do we colloquially think is attractive? It's him like kind of tall, like broad shouldered, has like chiseled teachers. And then the Botox now makes him look like he's dried Play-Doh or like a porcelain doll. It was a weird choice. Can I say it was a weird choice? I am not an anti cosmetic surgery person by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes people make weird choices. It's one of the things where someone has a Halloween costume of like a real person, but the mask is like that big head. He looks like the bad guys from that one Powerpuff girl episode who just bought the costumes of them put over his head. Yes. That was his own face. Big leather face vibes. It's like your face isn't real. I don't know why you did. I hope whatever caused you to do that is something that like is not damaging to your full health. Right. I'm so sorry I'm hurting people. I feel so bad. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because I'll tell you guys all the show. Something happened to me. I got to use this energy. Yeah, please. No, it's roughly. I will definitely have a dare from air life at the end of the show. Probably the most insane thing I've ever said on this show.

[00:11:56:23 - 00:14:49:09]
So anyway, but I want to talk about some of their most famous stories and how they compare to the movies. Let's first set the tone of who these folks even are. So Warrens are from Bridgeport, Connecticut, four minutes driving from my home. And like Bridgeport is the largest city in Connecticut. It is the place where you can catch a ferry to Long Island. It is also the place where you can very easily catch a train in New York. It is no longer a Catholic enclave the way it was about a hundred years ago. It is very non-white. I didn't even know it was a Catholic enclave. All of the cities in Connecticut were. They were basically split like Catholic Europeans and people from Latin America. That's 100% because of the old attitudes towards Catholics. Yeah, it was. They were like, okay, I know we said it wasn't the hood, but like back then it was the hood. Like it's still the hood. It's just a different-- It was the hood in a very different way. Right, yes. Like now it will be a nice neighborhood to raise your family if it's the world standard. Yeah. It's more of the hood. No, I've been to Bridgeport, shout out to Bridgeport. I've been to Bridgeport with you. The four of each other, like once or twice I think. Like I was thinking about you on a random Friday. Yeah, probably. Bridgeport's lovely. It's a good place. There's a lot of art stuff, like indie art stuff there that I don't know. It's come up in the past 10 years that I know of, so. They have a nice indie theater called The Bijou and Eamonn and I, our producer have engaged in the 48 Hour Film Project Festival for a good many years. And The Bijou tends to be where they air those films the last few years, so. Okay, I didn't know that. There's a great place next to there called Eat Noodle and it is exactly what it sounds like. It is a place that you go and you eat noodle. Yes, please. Say less. Anyway, so the Warrens were both born in the 1920s. Their early years are kind of uninteresting both to read and write about, but a short story. They were married in the 40s and went off to World War II. During that time, his ship sank, he went on leave. After the war ended, Ed went to art school and they started painting pictures of haunted houses. They would go to places that they heard were haunted and paint pictures of them. And they would tour around and sell those pictures. Which would be fun, like listen, I would buy someone's haunted house pictures if they were on Etsy or whatever, you know. I have got to see these pictures as an art student. Like, yeah, I need to see it. Yeah, if only they had stuck with that. Just like make that your lane, you know, they'd thrive. Like seriously, Connecticut is actually kind of known for painting stuff. Old Lyme Art Academy over in the corner of Connecticut. That and West Hartford, there was like a whole painting society. I have members of my family who were parts of that like in the early 1900s. Like there's lots of weird niche things that go on in Connecticut that people don't know about. And a lot of it involves the arts. Yeah, we had a whole last Mark Twain here. Yeah, we did, we did, we did in fact. He has a museum. This is one of the great things about New England. It's just full of this kind of lore, you know. It is, yeah.

[00:14:52:11 - 00:18:25:23]
Yeah, but they started painting pictures of haunted houses which is pretty cool. You know, a lot of people should stay painters and not go into the things that they do afterwards. Not naming names or anything. They quickly moved towards ghost hunting shenanigans the same year, 1952. And they started a group called the New England Society for Psychic Research or NSPR. Ed and Lorraine were devout Catholics and Ed claimed to be the only demonologist layperson ever recognized by the church. Ed was glaringly conservative and was said to be very upset about the liberalization of the reforms to the Catholic church that happened in the sixties. And he wanted to revive the conservative Catholicism and what better way to do it than fear of the devil itself. And likewise Lorraine claimed to be clairvoyant. Go see shit. It's so funny to me, because Sophia, I know that you are also a former evangelical and like all of this stuff is such like anathema to evangelical beliefs. Like this is a no-go, this whole zone. You know, like there's no, you just, you don't have clairvoyance. Yeah, that would be called witchcraft. Right, yeah, that's witchcraft. You would never have this kind of thing. And obviously, like you just said, part of what they're doing is like kind of flying in the face of like Vatican two or whatever. So they're kind of going against like the Catholic church in and of itself. But it's just wild to me coming from like a different Christian perspective to be like, oh yeah, this broad just was like, I'm a clairvoyant, what's up? And everyone was like, yeah, okay, that makes sense. Sure, that's a thing we believe. Yeah. You just look at like the pattern. Whenever like the church becomes too liberal, the more conservative members are like, cool, you're too liberal. And you're breaking the rules of this thing that I like. I would have given Lorraine some credit because I don't know about you guys, but I grew up a Baptist, right? So it's not uncommon to have people communing with God. And like you, oh, they're speaking in tongues. They're falling out, they're just catching the spirit. That's a common practice. So someone was like-- Yeah, that's the one for evangelicals too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, because I'm like, oh, y'all are the strict, like not holy toy, but it's just like, we don't do that type of refract here. Yeah, whoa, raising your hands, what are you doing? What? I'm so, apologies to my Catholic friends. It's y'all know it's true. Like there's a reason y'all like coming to my family's funerals. Way more fun or weddings for that matter, you know, if we want to keep it lively. Nothing worse than a Catholic wedding. Let's be real. Yeah. I've now looked up some Ed Warren's paintings and-- How we doing? Your face are saying that I'm both. I'm gonna have to find a larger version of this because it's interesting. I don't really-- I know you don't work them out. I can't even discern like the brush strokes or anything or what medium this is or anything. It's technically good. Okay, well, that's something. I feel like it stuck to that lane, you know? Right, they could have gotten better. Yeah, these aren't so bad. Yeah, yeah. Ah, some of these are bad. Okay, yeah, I'm trying to find more than just one and I'm like-- Is it the one in Red House that you're finding? The Red House. I'm gonna just show you. Yeah. I'm just gonna show you. Oh, please. I'm gonna allow the other one. Yeah, we're looking at the same one. Okay, but yeah, this looks like a child drew it. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't do it, but like you're right at the same time. It's just basic, you know? You're looking at these like what you would learn almost like in a Bob Ross-esque way. Right, exactly. If you were learning to paint for the first time, these are the kinds of paintings that you would do. I've just seen this, like one of the ones, he actually has a pretty good grasp of color, like color theory.

[00:18:27:10 - 00:18:53:04]
Unfortunately, his lane was very bad. Yeah, Lorraine was very serious about the whole Catholicism thing and there's an interview in the Irish Independent here. Ms. Warren said that it was her belief that a lack of religion was often what opened the door for malevolent forces to enter a home or life. Quoting Lorraine, "Where there's no religion, it's absolutely terrifying. That is your protection. God is your protection. It doesn't matter what your religion is." Oh, I've heard that so much.

[00:18:54:06 - 00:18:56:09]
She would be a good fit in with some aunties, I know.

[00:18:57:12 - 00:19:12:17]
Let's go to the year 1968. Horror classic Rosemary's Baby gets released. And it's also somewhat immediately five years after the airing of the Twilight Zone episode, The Living Doll. Oh my God, it's all falling into place. And with a woman named Annabelle, you're fucking kidding me.

[00:19:13:21 - 00:20:48:11]
I know, keep going, keep going. All my blood pressure. My guess is the reason why my doctor has concerns for me. Okay, the Twilight Zone episode, The Living Doll. In which a woman named Annabelle and her family are haunted by a doll named Talkie Tina. In this year, sort of the Warrens claim to have received the famous Annabelle doll, which is not one of the creepiest movie, but a Lilly Raggedy Ann doll. If you've never seen one of these, look it up. They're creepy, but not on that level. However, Ed Lorraine, their biographer Gerald Brittle, and their stepson Tony Sparrow, who was recently depicted in the newest Conjuring movie, have made a variety of claims about how they came into the doll, and none of them lined up appropriately. They got it from a nursing student who was 28 named Donna, but also a younger than that, named Deirdre, the first haunted, involved doll moving around the house by itself, but also in the first haunting, someone just brought it to the breakfast table a few times, and its arm moved. They got it in 1968, but they also got it in 1971. After the nursing student got it in 1970, in fact, their own website has three of those years on it. Give me a fucking story straight if you're going to grift. Oh my God. We really can't get it through. It's so funny. Doing research for this was the funniest thing ever. I have my opinion. I'll finish my passage. Apologies, audience, for this. I have a large iced coffee near me. Coming to the present, Master Matt Rife brought the place. He was also put on blast by Chris McKennell, the grandson of the Warrens, and the son of the daughter, Judy Sparrow, who supposedly wanted to tour with the doll. Chris said the following about Rife, but then he started wanting to bring this thing on tour. And that to me was so dangerous. Such a betrayal of everything my grandparents spent their lives doing.

[00:20:50:03 - 00:21:27:23]
The only pair problem with that is in November 7th, 2022, Argo and religion dispatch is titled Paranormal Vodka Exorcist and Demonic Doll. Welcome to the Paracon trash title. They need to, they need to-- It's too long. Wordy admit. Oh my God, there's more to-- Yeah, there's more to that title. Oh my God. This is the whole title. Paranormal vodka, exorcist, and a demonic doll. Welcome to Paracon. If they stop there, it just needs some workshop. Right, yeah. Here's the rest of the title. Come on! Tribunal B, based on the work of the demon hunters who inspired the Conjuring series.

[00:21:29:21 - 00:24:21:06]
What is the opposite of clickbait? I think that's what that is. When you're so bored halfway through the title, you're like, no, I'm not reading that under any circumstance. No, exactly. That person had to hit a word count for their boss who was going to bitch slap them. And they said, I can't fit anything more in this article. I've already exhausted all like extended sentences, like what one word would suffice. Oh, I know, he's gonna count the article title. Anyway, that long ass title, in that article, that longest title, it places the doll at the Mohegan Sun Casino, courtesy of Judy Sparer's husband, Tony Sparer, who was operating the Warren's Occult Museum until very recently. As far as the real story goes, well, there are assorted stories. Most of them are still contradictory and none of them have anything to do with the movie. It's just genuinely made up. Okay, I am going to give the Warrens a little bit of credit. It's gonna sound weird, right? We live in an age now of like grifters, where I think anybody like sees like, oh, I can become a grifter. I just need to have like this bullshit story. I feel like there's nothing in this so far to maybe doubt like their adherence to their religion. If that's true, they were probably only trying to get into like a religious audience to start up that fervor again. It's probably not, if you come out with a claim, you're going to have 50,000 people. Like if you get eyes on you, you're gonna have like 10 assholes who think they know more than you. Two of them are at least gonna be crunchy parents. They're going to attack you in such a way that they're gonna make it sound like your story's inconsistent. Because you're like, bro, I've told this 15 times, fuck you. Like just go listen to the recording. Probably the money started flowing in and they're like, we gotta keep this shit up. When'd you find the doll again? It was like 1970, 1971. Yeah, fuck it. Yeah, somewhere in there. And there's no internet. I feel like that's kind of one of the key things about all of this is that no one, the ability to fact check anything that they were saying was so limited. So like they can say whatever the hell they wanted, you know, in a TV appearance versus a speaking appearance versus a book versus blah, blah, blah, blah. And no one was like matching those up, right? Like, I mean, there were people who were pointing out the inconsistencies from the jump, but like not like now where you would be like, everyone would be pulling this apart. There's not 15 YouTube channels dedicated to debunking the bomb. Also, just gotta say it, maybe they were just a little too soon for their time. Maybe if they had Discovery Channel, if like the TV is-- Oh, sure. They would have 15 spin-offs. Yeah, yeah. 15 spin-offs. Where they're like going across just dilapidated houses in Detroit. Like shaking the camera weirdly. Yeah, where Zach Bagan's exists, they would absolutely crush. They're consultants on like a Scooby-Doo movie. Like they're funny, like we probably liked them a lot more. And then we learned about their politics. Like that's probably the same. Are you doing it's hard work? What? Yeah. I know that Warren had just taken up a thing as a, you know, paranormal stuff illustrator, like a book illustrator. He would have done great. Yeah.

[00:24:23:06 - 00:25:40:08]
I do think though that even now, every now and again, I'll watch this guy on YouTube who likes to debunk ghost videos or whatever. I'm not a paranormal believer or things like that. I kind of came of the opinion that once I left evangelicalism, I didn't wanna replace it with anything else. And so I'm not like a supernatural believer or anything like that. But I love like, I love ghosty things in a like fictional sense, just like someone would like zombies and you know, whatever stuff like that. Like the vibe is great. I love ghosty things. And so I'll watch this guy debunk ghost videos. And I think one of the things that is fascinating is that oftentimes like people double down when you debunk something anyway, you know, they just believe it harder. And to your point, like things like on Discovery Channel, on Travel Channel, History Channel, all the ancient aliens, the blah, blah, blah, the more you tell people that that shit isn't real, the more they cling onto it. Now tell them it's also connected to your belief in God. And like now this is like your whole being that is wrapped up. And maybe we're putting the cart before the horse here because we haven't even really gotten into the Catholicism angle to its full depth. But I think there is like you're saying a place for them in the landscape that we have now.

[00:25:41:12 - 00:26:46:02]
Yeah, it's like in another world, they are celebrated authors. They are, they were. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like celebrated for like, they didn't have a bullshit movie and make money off people's fear and pain. Right. And like wanting to hurt people. They like came up with a cool, great story. Like in a world they're having dinner with Stephen King, but like Harold did like horror and thriller authors and they're making like airport media with the tens of millions of dollars. Right, yeah. Like they're sitting there. And then we learn about their terrible politics and how mediocre the books are. They're James Patterson in another world, is what I'm trying to say. There's a bunch of James Patterson fans who are gonna like wanna attack me. Who writes real mediocre shit, y'all. He doesn't even write the mediocre shit. Him, like, oh yeah. Sorry, that's why my caffeine fueled rant. Now we can jump ahead a bit to one of the first big things on their list. A case widely known as the Amityville Horror. (Mumbling)

[00:26:47:05 - 00:27:09:04]
That's another movie I like that nobody else likes. I weirdly like the remake a lot. I only saw that for the first time like two months ago. Well, maybe a little more than that, but mostly what I take from that is just Ryan Reynolds' "Inguinal Crease" more than anything else. Just a lot. A lot of Ryan Reynolds' body in that film.

[00:27:10:15 - 00:28:11:19]
(Laughing) I can hold on for a little bit. Just go ahead and give that a little Google. Ryan Reynolds' "Inguinal." I gave up carbs to get this B. Y'all gonna see that. You're gonna see that shit. He is just in pajama pants for half of that movie. It just, you know. I promise you, and this is probably gonna go into male desirability when I do my episode on it. I promise you, I am one of those people if I ever get, if my ab workouts keep working, I have that big dude, oh, you're a former weightlifter six pack. I'm not wearing a shirt either. No, no, absolutely not. I don't judge people who do that. If you have a hot body, You gotta let it out. People work into that body, and you have to give up good food, carbs and Oreos for it? I mean, consciously take your shirt off. 100%. But yes, I'm a run. I'm not gonna judge you. Here, here. For those of our listeners who don't know this, the "Inguinal Crease" has another more common colloquial name,

[00:28:13:01 - 00:28:15:06]
very scientific term still it is kungutters.

[00:28:17:02 - 00:30:22:08]
Well. And now you can keep talking about the Amityville. I will get the gift on. Go on. I agree. All right, the story starts with something verifiably true, sort of. A man named Ron DeFeo killed a bunch of his family members in 1974, in the family home in Amityville, Long Island. A little over a year later, the married couple, George and Kathy Lutz, as well as three of Kathy's children from her previous marriage, move into the house. Within a month, they had fled the house, claiming to be experiencing the paranormal there. The story that they told was written in a book by the author Jay Anson, which spawned a number of movies and was also likely entirely bullshit. The Lutz family claimed to have heard strange sounds like doors slamming, beds shaking and smelled strange odors. George even claimed that he saw his wife turn into a 90 year old woman and also that she levitated. Does that all happen? Yeah. That's my understanding. They claimed that due to the murders happening there, they had a priest come in and give the house an exorcism while they were moving in. Why didn't they just bulldoze a house actually? Shit. Well, you think you should probably take a few steps before you bulldoze your new house, I would say. No, but no, I'm just thinking like, if murders happened in a house, like I know you're supposed to technically disclose it when you like sell the house, but I'm suddenly thinking like, like technically that's where people died. Why don't they just bulldoze the house? I don't know, maybe, maybe. They very much knew that murders happened at this house before moving in. Yes, 1,000%. Why would you do this? I got into a real purpose funeral parlor, okay? That's not it. I grew up in front of a cemetery, so I would do this, no problem. Oh, okay. That's white people shit, I'm so sorry. They didn't have a good black friend. Whoa, whoa, okay. Maybe Rachel Kitchin was still high. Did you, did, have you ever read the graphic novel Fun Home? No, why didn't, why didn't-- That's Alison Bechtel, right? Yes, it is Alison Bechtel, yeah. Yeah. A Bechtel's just named? Yes, you heard of the Bechtel. I know things. Yes, you do. Good job, Himbo, good job.

[00:30:23:12 - 00:30:30:14]
That's gotta be our branding for the show. I've been an AI, I've been like an unnamed co-host, I've been a Himbo, enjoy the show.

[00:30:31:18 - 00:30:40:01]
I've been a Himbo. IO you're referred to as an international man of mystery, so. I saved that. I love it, I love it. Oh, and Leisure.

[00:30:41:21 - 00:32:23:11]
Sorry. A man of mystery and leisure. Fun Home is about Alison Bechtel and her life living in a funeral home. Yes. And her dad and like all kinds of stuff. Despite that, in a signed affidavit, the priest in question admitted his only interaction with them was over the phone. He later contradicted his story and appeared to go along with the Lutz family for reasons that we really can't understand. While the Warrens made a televised visit in 1976 and were adamant that the house was haunted, a circular firing squad of lawsuits and nonsense between the Lutz family, Bernard Burton, acclaimed clairvoyant, Frederick Martin, another claimed clairvoyant, Good Housekeeping Magazine, the Hearst Corporation, another writer named Paul Hoffman, William Weber, who was Ron DeFeo's lawyer, and with the Cro-Marty family, who had bought the houses after the Lutz had banded it. It revealed a lot of the nonsense at the bottom of it all. Weber admitted to conspiring with the Lutz's, quote, "over many bottles of wine," to write the book with Anson. During the trial for the Cro-Marty suit against the Lutz's and Anson, the Lutz's admitted that the entire thing was fabricated. Although they've gone on to say in public that it was not after that. Basically, it's a big mess and grift upon grift upon grift. The Lutz's have since passed, but not before trying to sue over the 2005 remake of Amityville, starring Ryan Reynolds, who kills his dog in the film. What the fuck? (Both Laughing) They were really mad about that. As are we. Literally, I have long conversations with my friends, like, okay, does the dog die in the film? If it's any film, I have to ask. There's a whole website for that. Does the dog die, Tom? I think that the dog dying adds stakes to the movie sometimes. Yeah, I understand. Or like a cat. And I hate it, but I'm also like, okay, yes. It sure is a shortcut to getting you like, fuck.

[00:32:24:14 - 00:32:33:11]
Yeah, like smile. I wasn't sold on smile until she had given her dead cat in a box to her niece. And then I was like, wow, this is fucked.

[00:32:35:05 - 00:33:18:17]
(Both Laughing) But on this, like, this just ridiculous battle over the Amityville house, I think the details of this are so, like, funny when it gets down to it. Like the priest, who they're like, oh yeah, he like, he fled from the house and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he like, later on, was like, uh, no, it wasn't even there. I don't know what you're talking about. Or like, they claimed to see like footsteps in the snow and there was no snow at this time of year. And there was like, they claimed, you know, all kinds of things like doors being beaten down and blah, blah, blah. And it was like, the door had like all of its original like hinges and things like that on it. Nothing had ever been broken. Just such clear things that you could just walk up to the house and be like, oh, nothing fucking happened here.

[00:33:20:06 - 00:35:17:04]
They just, but they just went along with it. And people, this is what always gets me. We have access to this information now. Now we can look this up. If in the 1970s, you believed them fine. But in 2025, when you can read this, it's crazy to me that people are still like, mm-hmm, that happened. That's definitely real. Yeah, you can pull up you know, the transcripts for some of these lawsuits and it's, it's bad shit. Yeah, like the author was straight up like, yeah, they just told me to make up a good story. Yeah, yeah. And that happens with a number of authors. Yes. With the warrants. It's like, hey man, I was paid a lot to like do this. Right. Yeah, I have real estate. And they then have no obligation to like not say that later on too. Like it's not like, you know, the author signed an NDA, like, and you can never say that this was fictional. It's like, no, once that came up, he was like, yeah, I fabricated that. Yeah, it's so funny too. That's what they told me to do. If I was going to get someone to fabricate something, I would get them to sign in. (Laughing) It's like such a low effort grift. It's insulting. The crazy thing is like, they would do like ghost hunting classes in Connecticut. And like, I know people that had gone to them. Like I had one as a roommate many years ago and he was like, I'm a ghost hunter. I got trained by the Warrens. Like here's my EM everywhere that I paid to grant work. That gives you credibility. Oh my God, I'm not gonna lie. Like I'm adding that to the list. So Corinne, you have met me, but I have a list of the jobs that I'm like too unredeemable for me to do, like the grift. The first one's like black conservative. Yeah, definitely. Science person saying big pharma's lying to you. Sure, definitely. Ghost hunter. Yeah, like, yeah, just, this is now on the list because 2000 for our class, are you like? Right, it's so transparent.

[00:35:18:14 - 00:35:56:13]
I mean, now need to know what the conversation is, right? Cause like I work in an industry that's regulated and there's like tons of certifications and you're like, no, we're certified by this body. Who the fuck is the certification body? Well, Nesbir, obviously. Nesbir is the body. I think they're the certification body cause they were kind of the OGs at doing this. Yeah, exactly. Yo, I'm not gonna lie. I've listened to way too much like Jay-Z to not respect a scam. Circular, yeah, just straight into built it. You said, not only are we gonna run the classes, we're gonna run the certification board. Yeah. You know what, I know I'm supposed to dislike the warrants. I respect the, I respect the, oh.

[00:35:57:15 - 00:38:24:19]
Somebody just has to actually respect the level of work that people put into these schemes. Like you can't respect the people, but you can respect the level of work. And it's again, if it stops at like paranormal grift, then fine, a fool and his money, right? Like easily parted. You can steal money from doofuses who pay for that stuff all day long, right? You have a choice about how you spend your money. So like that element of them is honestly the least offensive element of the warrants, like fine. You know, if people are going to, you know, waste their money on this nonsense, okay. It just is worse in other elements. Yeah, there's, yeah, it gets worse. It'll get worse. Getting back to lawsuits regarding the warrants will turn shortly to the inspiration for one of the movies in the Conjuring series called "The Devil Made Me Do It." This was about the Arne Cheyenne Johnson case. It took place back in Fairfield County, Connecticut again in 1981 in the little town of Brookfield outside of Danbury, which is notable for being a city where people used to make hats and having a sewage treatment plant named after John Oliver. What? (Laughing) Yeah, it was a thing. John Oliver made a bunch of jokes about Danbury and it's like such an obvious to like talk shit about. Because like Danbury's fine. Yeah. It's a good place to get Brazilian food. I don't know why there's like a million Brazilians in Danbury, it's just a thing. And you know, out of danger or something like that's where you go. But John Oliver made some jokes about Danbury. The Danbury mayor was like, screw you. And John Oliver was like, I will donate a bunch of money to Danbury if you put my name on the sewage treatment facility. Beautiful. And so now it is the John Oliver Memorial sewage treatment facility. I love when like local small politicians get in peace with celebrities. Yes. Like the mayor of Gary, Indiana almost had beef with Joe Budden. Freddie Gibbs facilitated it. I will explain it on thrones because it was hilarious to watch. Oh my God. And it was very clear though, Gary, Indiana is not a place you want more of a wish. No, yeah. It's like the worst place in America, like famously. Yeah, it's like, it's where Michael Jackson grew up and people were like, oh, it's supposed to be such a nice place for people. It is not. Like, no, Gary, Indiana, you will get, you will get, don't, if you may have Gary, you're probably the toughest person in your immediate circle unless you're up with other people from Gary. Yeah, fuck that. Gary, I want no smoke. There's no song after Gary, Indiana. Yeah, it makes itself some point, doesn't it? Yeah. Gary, Indiana, Gary. Huh. Yeah.

[00:38:25:20 - 00:38:37:01]
I had no idea. Anyway, back to Arne Cheyenne Johnson. So Arne killed his landlord, Alan Boto, no relation, in a bit of a scuffle caused by Alan being able to drink,

[00:38:38:07 - 00:40:12:12]
according to witness testimony. Nothing odd there. Arne was living with his girlfriend, Debbie Glatzel, at the time, who claims, along with Arne himself and the Warrens, that her brother David had been giving an exorcism a short time before the killing occurred. They claimed that during the exorcism, Arne coaxed a demon to enter him, which definitely most assuredly, and would not be lying about this, caused him to kill their drunk dickhead landlord. Oh, man. That's definitely how that works. An attorney from my home city of Waterbury, Connecticut, famous for poverty. Martin Manila tried testing that claim out in courts. This is depicted in the movie where Ed gets big mad that people have to swear on the Bible in court, but that they don't believe the devil could be a good reason for a crime. Johnson, of course, did not do well in court and was convicted of manslaughter, serving four years and 11 months behind bars, which I guess is not that much for-- Yeah, for killing a guy. Yes, not bad. I'm not gonna say that. (Laughing) This is my dumb question. I would hate my dumb ass lawyer, because if there's a person, if there's a person that actually kills a person, and that person was drunk and fighting them, that feels like a very-- Like a stand your groundy kind of thing. Yes, self defense. But one thing they would be all stop free, but it's an easier case to make if the person being were drunk and attacking you and you have witnesses, as opposed, because the whole devil story just makes it sound like you're trying to hide some shit and you think we're dumb. Well, and this is what happens when you let Catholic grifters get in the way of your defense, you know, and convince you that you were taken over by the devil.

[00:40:13:16 - 00:41:41:00]
Like, in America, how many people get in drunk bar fights? Something bad happens and someone, and the judge goes, "No, the person who was drunk is clearly the aggressor. You're gonna have, not saying he would have got it off again or gotten to on the job, but it's like probably for a year or maybe probation or something." Johnson also admitted being drunk during that altercation. So, I went to-- Back. (Laughing) Back of the air? The judge basically told the lawyer, Manila, he was like, "Listen, man, no, we're not doing that here. This is ridiculous. We will try this case on normal terms. And if you want to make another defense, you can." And that's why they went with self, like a self-defense kind of thing. And that's why he only served five years out of the 20 years he was sentenced to. So, Carl Glatzel Jr., David and Debbie's brother, as well as David himself, sued Lorraine Warren and the Warren's biographer, Gerard Brittle, who previously mentioned over Brittle's book on the events. According to Carl Jr., their mother and the rest of their family were coached by the Warrens on what to say to make it seem like David was possessed. Reading from AAP here. Carl Glatzel has said that the Warrens exploited his family for monetary gain. He told the Associated Press in 2007 that his brother had suffered from mental illness as a child, but now has now recovered. "It was living hell when we were kids," Glatzel told AP later that year. "It was just a nightmare. I'm not gonna go through that again. Neither is my brother." See, now we're past the point of normal grift and we're on to the point of exploiting the mentally ill

[00:41:42:12 - 00:43:09:01]
and helping them defend murder. And yeah, it'll get worse though. Yes, right. It's not, again, somehow not the worst thing, but this is very much is that point of now, I mean, obviously this is what the history of exorcism and stuff is, right? It's people who are suffering from mental illness and things like that, and people not knowing what to do with that or refusing to believe mental illness existed, being like, we'll just get the demon out of him and everything will be A-okay. And that's what they come in and do here to the point where I think this guy, he was what, like 30-ish when this happened. And it's like, they say that's a lot of times in your late 20s-ish is when things like schizophrenia come on and it's like, he should have been going to a doctor instead. They're like, don't worry, we brought the fucking Warrens in, we don't need a doctor, it's fine, that'll do it. There's a lot of that stuff and like, you know, faith healing, yeah, there's a nexus there to be explored, unfortunately. Absolutely. And also, not for nothing, the Danbury area is known for people being a little unhinged around there. They were a city where they made hats for a long time and there is mercury everywhere. That'll do it, absolutely. Yeah, so I don't know if that made them crazy, but. Mercury in the hats? That's why the Mad Hatter is mad in Alice in Wonderland because of the mercury in the hats.

[00:43:10:18 - 00:43:57:04]
(Humming) How do I not know these things? I'm a collector of whack facts and this is like, completely something I did not know. Here's your rabbit hole for later. You are not kidding, like this is my, this is my, like the rest of my evening. Yes. Yeah. Hello audience, this is Sofia. I'm recording this to let you know that we couldn't shut the fuck up and so the episode ran into two episodes and we thought we were gonna do one and we just kept rolling along and so, you know, you get a bonus episode, but also here's the pause in the episodes. You're gonna have to wait till next time. Bye. (Upbeat Music)